Angela Tharp

Flamingo Cantina owner and Red River Cultural District board member Angela Tharp has been one of Austin’s most stalwart supporters of reggae, world music, and a cornucopia of other genres for almost 35 years. Find out how Angela parlayed one night selling tacos on Halloween in the burned-out space between two buildings on East 6th Street into a venerable club that has fostered a vibrant local scene while also hosting big names like Burning Spear, Toots and the Maytals, and Lee “Scratch” Perry. Angela also discusses her extensive experience as an advocate, negotiating with the city to ensure the continued viability of live music downtown and what comes next for the corner of East 6th and Red River. 

The podcast is a collection of real stories, history, memories and perspectives from people connected to the cultural district - past and present. Everyone remembers the past a little differently, and some tales include sensitive and explicit topics. These stories don’t always reflect the view, mission or endorsements of our organization - they’re simply part of the rich, complicated history of the place. We’ve done our best to honor each storyteller’s voice, but can’t promise every detail is fact-checked or free from the occasional fuzzy memory. Think of this podcast; heartfelt, imperfect, and full of character. Thanks for listening with an open mind and for celebrating the many layers of our District’s shared heritage.

Support the Red River Cultural District at: www.redriverculturaldistrict.org

Follow us at: @redriverculturaldistrict

The host of The Red River Podcast is: Greg Beets
Special thanks to: Richard Whymark
Explore Richard and Greg's work at: www.acuriousmixofpeople.com

Music for this podcast is provided by: KindKeith

KindKeith (they/them), the musical project of Fort Worth native Keith Galloway Jr., is an Alternative Rap/R&B artist known for blending soulful...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If you believe in protecting and supporting Austin's live music scene and our culture, we invite you to get involved at Red River Culturaldistrict.org. Your support helps keep the music alive. From Austin, Texas, you're listening to the Red River Podcast. Stories of music, culture, and community. Exploring the legacy and lore of Red River Street in downtown Austin.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

My name's Angela Tharp, and I'm a longtime Austinite. My family moved here when I was, I think, five years old from Fort Worth. So I've seen a lot of changes, but I'm now the owner of Flamingo Cantina, which we're going to celebrate our 34th anniversary in October. And so we're excited about that. I also sit on the board of the Red River Cultural District.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

So you came to Austin when you were five years old. Did you have a conscious memory of what it was like moving from Fort Worth to Austin?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Oh, I do. I do. I remember my dad had been in the military and then he decided to go get his master's at the University of Texas. And one of my earliest memories of Austin was going with him to the library on campus. And I remember, oh my God, everybody's a hippie. I want to be a hippie because I loved all the flower clothes. And, you know, it was just a different scene than I was used to coming from Fort Worth.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

So how did you become involved in the music scene?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Well, it was really quite by accident. I um wanted to start my own business. And so I had experience in the food industry to some degree, and I decided to make a food trailer. And this was kind of before the food trailer became popular, let's say. But I made this giant 20-foot-long food trailer, and I did concessions at Wendy Point on Lake Travis for the first summer, and then I started realizing I needed to move somewhere where there was going to be clientele. And I searched kind of all over town, and I was driving down 6th Street and I saw a furlease sign out front. And it at the time it was a space between two buildings. It was graded uh fence, and you could see all the way to the alley. There was this little bathroom office complex, but that was pretty much it. And someone had come in and put a long bar, it was just plywood, all up and down that one side. And I was like, I bet I can get my trailer in there. So sure enough, I rented it on Halloween, and we had kind of a party with my friends and stuff, but we sold tacos to go. And back then, Halloween was huge. There was 100,000 people on the street, and we sold enough tacos to rent for six months. So I was like, okay, I think I'm on to something. Wow. Okay. So at that time, I had friends in bands, and you know, people were like, oh my gosh, you have a place on 6th Street. And I'm like, yeah, it's really a space. It's not, I don't have a stage, I don't have, you know, anything of value there. And so, you know, I had folks who were adamant about helping set up something to play. So bands started coming. We built a little stage. We put clamp lights on the tree. We had a tree back here. And um, it kind of organically grew from there, but we were pretty limited by the weather because I didn't have a roof. And so it grew from there and I got a beer permit. And back then you could sell beer to go on the street, and so that was really sustaining us, you know, more than the tacos or the music. And eventually I realized if I was going to be viable, I needed a roof. And so in 96 I put together Flamingo Fest, which was at um Fiesta Gardens. It was a day of music. We had 20 bands and raised enough money to put on the roof. Wow, very cool. Yeah, it's kind of how we got here.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah, that in and very similar uh parallels, I think, to like Liberty Lunch. I mean, I know they Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

I grew up going there and I was a huge fan, of course. So absolutely. Yeah, they went through a lot of different changes and put on a roof eventually, which I was sad about.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Well, I mean, I guess you miss the magic of the outdoors, but yeah, uh, but yeah, when when the weather comes in.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

It's not, yeah, not viable.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So you you said it was just like a a space, and I and I know that um at one time the space was Esther's pool, and then there was a big fire, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Was that basically after the fire, yeah, and they had built this bathroom complex back with the bricks that were part of that building?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

When you uh so so you get in here to the space and you you're thinking, you know, a food truck, and then you know, you have people who you're friends with who are in bands, and suddenly it kind of starts, uh, you know, the idea of uh a live music venue becomes uh viability. How did you decide to uh go with uh reggae and world music as sort of your vein of music that you were presenting here?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Well, a lot of my friends did play world and reggae music, but they also played at Mercado Caribe, which was uh located on the corner of I want to say Trinity and Fifth Street, and it was like a pretty big-sized venue that did a lot of reggae and world. And I think right around the time we were probably our second year, they went out of business. And so those bands kind of migrated over, and that just kind of grew from there. And I loved reggae. I just didn't know I didn't know what I was doing. I was in the food business, but started to learn what you needed to do to be in music business and support acts and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah. So who were who were some of the bands that that first started playing here uh back at that time?

SPEAKER_01 5:57

iTechs, you remember them?

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

They morphed into they were from the Lotions, members of the Lotians. Of course, yeah. And they were like Texas's first reggae band, I think. And then they became members of uh the Mau Mau Chaplains who still play here every week. So that's one of the bands. Um Wajun Bay was the first band that ever played here. They were kind of a percussion-driven uh Afro you know keeping kind of band.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

But it was a lot of uh uh you know, mostly local bands, I would think.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

We had Tribal Nation, you know, Route One, all those types of bands. So it was quite a few local reggae bands then, which not as many now.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Aaron Powell But it seems like there's always been a like a vein of that going you know back to the Liberty Lunch days. There's uh there's always been a you know uh some you know some contingent of bands that are playing that sort of sound. So so you're kind of getting a beach a beachhead with uh with the reggae and the world bands who've migrated over from uh from Mercado Caribe. I mean, when did when did you start uh tapping into some of the uh you know national international touring acts?

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Well, I started being contacted by bands, you know, hearing about what had gone on. I mean, some of them would still play at Liberty Lunch, but I think Liberty Lunch quit doing as much. I'm not quite sure what their trajectory was at the time, but I know they had still had shows, you know. And then that's when after Liberty Lunch closed, a lot of the bands started coming over here. Yeah. Because we would pick up culture and burning spear and you know, artists like that.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Uh yeah I want to ask just a bit about some of the some of the you know legendary uh folks you've had here. Uh, you know, specifically Lee Scratch Perry. I mean, I I I believe he played here what I think more than 20 times. He played here quite often, yeah. Tell me what it was like when on on a show day when Lee Scratch Perry had come through.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Well, Lee Lee was such a amazing character, you know. Um, I loved him so much. He was he was a good friend, you know, after a while. And I feel like that comes with learning to trust someone and you know, those kind of things. And Lee was the type of artist that needed attention, like you needed to help him get from the airport to the hotel, etc. So I was very involved in getting him here. And the first time he came, we made him this hat and it had a flamingo on it, and he loved it, you know, and I'm like, oh, okay. So the next time he came, we made him an outfit, and this continued on. I I think he was Superman, we made him the sheriff one year. One of his favorite ones that I came up with was the Pope. He loved that. And then I made him Holly Selassie, you know, and so it was kind of this thing, and I I wouldn't tell him until he showed up. I just show him, I'm like, okay, what do you think? And he was like, let's put it on, and like, okay. So it was just tremendous fun to work with him, you know. He was really brilliant. I think people think he's crazy, and perhaps, you know, there's a touch of that, but he knew exactly what he was doing.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Yeah, well, I mean, and just in terms of the the music, uh, you know, totally exploring new new new frontiers. And uh, you know, I think you can still hear a lot of the music, uh, a lot of what he was doing stylistically, just the the the the textures of the sound that he was applying. You could, you know, you hear that in all sorts of places. So I mean, yeah, definitely, uh yeah, he definitely knew what he was doing musically.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

And that's that's great that you you made him a a a new costume every time. So so you I mean, it seems to me like that would be a like in terms of building a relationship with these folks coming through uh time after time, year after year, that would, you know, that sort of hospitality would be a big part of it.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Well, I feel like that they appreciated what we did for them. I mean, I I go to great lengths to, you know, help them feel at home and welcome them home when they come. And we have Jamaican food, you know. My longtime friend Winston has a trailer now. He has a trailer now, but he cooks for all my, you know, big shows and artists. Oh, cool. Yeah. Where where's his trailer? It's at Slaughter and Manchaka. Okay. Right across from the H U B. There's a little trailer park there. He's got a sweet little spot, and he does like sound systems on Sundays. So you gotta go check it out.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Have to get down there next time in South Austin. Yeah. Cool. Um, well, what about uh what about uh Toots Toots Hibbert? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

What an amazing guy. Yeah. He was he was fun to work with for sure. I was a little afraid of him at during their rehearsals because he was like no bullshit. He'd be like ready to go pound the drummer if he didn't get it right, you know. But then he turned around and laughed. He'd go, musicians. But he was truly a joy to work with. I've known him. Oh my god, he was so talented. Yeah, a lot of energy.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Absolutely. I mean, I think uh just you know, one of the great vocalists. Uh amazing. Yeah, and and just and and the songs too, the great songwork. Yeah, yeah. Who are some of the others? I know you've had just about just about everybody here who is touring and alive uh has has played here at one time or another.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Well, we had a long time friendship with Burning Spear, you know, and he played while he was touring. He pretty much quit touring, you know, early 2000s, and his wife is been ill for a long time, and he's now touring again as he in his 80s, but mostly big festivals and things like that. He would come do a three-day run, you know, which was fun. So there's him, culture, Joseph Hill worked with him for years and years. It was sad to to lose him. So a lot of them have moved on, which is really, you know, heartbreaking. But there's new ones coming in too. So that's also been kind of a joy to work with them and help them develop in the market.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Well, so who are some of the new ones that that you're seeing come up and who are kind of following that that further?

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Jamaica, there's Rick Jam and Dahl Wayne, they're kind of new, they're on the on the horizon there coming up. Um and there's all sorts of states-based, you know, reggae acts that I've worked with for a long time that are still on the up and up, you know, Kaz Haley, Josh Heinrichs, those guys, you know, and then there's Callie Reggae, too. Oh yeah. You know, some of the other Jamaicans, Lila Iike, um, Savannah, you know, Atana. There's quite a few. They're keeping the reggae fires burning.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Definitely. That's that's definitely good stuff. Yeah. And and I know reggae isn't it isn't the only thing you guys do here. I mean, it would now when you started the club, were you thinking you were gonna be like you were gonna go into all types of music?

SPEAKER_01 13:18

I mean, what was your I didn't really have any kind of specific. I was just like, who can come make music, kind of fit into good vibes kind of thing? But I've done plenty of punk rock, you know, plenty of rock and roll. We do a lot of Latin shows, you know, Afrobeats, all kinds of stuff. So I'm not particularly fond of metal or idiom, just to be honest. But I've done some, of course.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Going back to the 90s, uh, when I was around, I mean there there was always uh a good, a good mix. And then, you know, like you said, with uh, you know, Latin, Cumbia, uh we do a lot of hip hop too. Yeah, a lot of hip. Yeah. I know you've had some of the some of the Wu-Tang folks in here, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah. Those are fun shows. You know, some of the bigger artists like playing here because it's so intimate. You know, the audience is right here, they're not 10 feet away or whatever, and and it's a different energy. And, you know, even though it's small, we're 299 cap, it still it's a lot of energy for some of the bigger artists. It's like, wow.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

And and just yeah, the energy in the in this room is definitely a, you know, yeah, it's good good energy. So it's a lot of fun. I did want to talk a little bit about what was 6th Street like when when this first opened for live music.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

You know, back then there were a few places like The Black Cat. I think Joe's generic was open back then. There's Ravens over on um Red River. And then the I'm not sure when the what was it, the night over there, what Stubbs was or Elysian was.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Oh yeah. It's been a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

But those type of venues were down here, and right before I think we moved down here, Antones was down here, you know, because I think I had come to some shows there, but they then moved off. When I had opened, I don't think Emo's was here yet, but then they opened shortly thereafter.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Well, so what I mean, so you you've been here 34 years. I mean, how how have how have you managed to hang on through, you know, the way the the way Sixth Street has has gone over the last 34 years?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Um, well, let's just say I'm very thrifty. You know, my number one goal is to pay people. I don't expect people to pay play for free, you know, so often I'll have to pull out a pocket to make things, you know, work out. And over the past several years, I've been, you know, blessed to be the recipient of various grants and things that help that happen. You know, my rent is probably not as much as some of the other places just because I'm still renting a space between two buildings. I put everything in here. I think some of our touring shows help carry us through.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

In in terms of running a nightclub in Austin, Texas, Dave Thompson, yeah, used to manage emos back in the day. And he he talked at length about the struggles with the noise ordinance that he was having back then. Yeah. Back in the and I know that you uh kind of helped lead the uh you know, the opposition to how the city was trying to amend that. And I and I wanted to just talk about how that worked out and how you negotiated with the city.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, that was a very challenging time for us because nightly the APD would come down here with their meters, and if you were above 80 decibels at your property line, then you were gonna get a ticket. And they were like $500 tickets, you know, it's not cheap. We even built sound walls. I mean, you can see the big one there, and they're thick, the wood didn't go all the way through. I had an acoustical engineer help me develop that, and good and bad, because you know, it keeps our sound in, helps with all that, but now things have changed to where there is no sound ordinance, and people want to go in bars where they can see in. You can't see in. So it's this strange kind of evolvement, you know, that's occurred. But back then, all of us were getting tickets, and so we created a group down here of live music venue folks who were vested to raise money and get an attorney and help rewrite the ordinance so that we were going to be protected. And that raised its head a few times, and we ended up with something that's pretty acceptable because now there's something called the agent of change. And if that's a new building coming in, they have to protect their people from our sounds.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

I also wanted to talk about um the the flyering back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

And they, you know, back in the day, you people used to promote their shows by putting flyers on telephone poles. The city decided that that was, you know, they were gonna enforce an ordinance against that. And the way they did it was I guess they came to you as a venue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

And you know, how we have no, you know, no control over who puts up a flyer for their show. Yeah, but they would come and go, is this yours? We found on the poll, we're gonna write you a ticket. And I'm like, ah, yeah. You know, we were constantly fighting with the city to, you know, recognize that we're a cultural asset, not someone to pick on.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Yeah. Yeah. Which is which is ironic given the fact that it's, you know, we you know, you get off the airplane and it's live music capital of the world. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

It's always been kind of a a fight, I think, to get that recognition. You know, it's lip service is easy.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

And I guess you you've served on the on the music board uh at times too.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

I've been on the music commission. Yeah. Yeah, I was uh Jackie Goodman's appointee for a while. And we handled a bunch of different issues and we didn't have the commission at that time didn't have the power that they have now in terms of dealing with grants and things. There were no grants back then, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Did you ever think that you know running a live music venue would translate into that that sort of political aspect?

SPEAKER_01 19:29

You know, I really didn't, but it became apparent that that was gonna be something I was gonna have to do if I wanted to protect my interests. And I mean it's I've been on numerous commissions and boards since then, uh, in various capacities to fight for our rights, you know. I mean, from the smoking ordinance to the sound and you know, the street blocking and just all kind of issues that I never thought I'd be involved with. And so it's kind of a lot of time.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Well, you you mentioned the the smoke, uh, the smoking ordinance. And and I know um, you know, being a venue with a, you know, the I I think when that came out, venues that didn't have like a patio or someplace to go were at a distinct disadvantage. And yeah, so uh how did how did that all play out and and what was your role in it?

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Well, I was on the task force to help come up with a plan between the anti-smoking contingent and then the venues, you know. And they ended up with the current ordinance, which you can smoke outside, but not inside. And I think that's fine. You know, I think that it's better that way. And that solves the problem. But it was a big one because we were concerned they were gonna put a kibosh on all of it.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

I wanted to ask a little bit about the role of uh South by Southwest, like, you know, in terms of uh, you know, being a South by Southwest venue, the growth of South by Southwest, and then and then now where we sit in 2025, which where I think there are a lot of question marks around how South by Southwest goes going forward. So tell tell me about your your relationship with those folks.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Well, you know, I was very good friends with Lewis Myers. He started South by Southwest, and I loved Lewis. I worked with him quite a bit when I was on the music commission because he was running uh the music channel on TV, and uh we supported, you know, him throughout that process. Um and so I was part of South by Southwest for at I think not at first, I think, but at probably second or third year. We were probably, you know, part of it by then. And then um I would get mad at them for various things, you know, because I just wasn't happy with maybe what I don't know, however it was going. So I would go off on my own for a few years. Then we went back. And I've been back since. And we've had some wonderful shows and, you know, I support what they do. I know it's not easy. And I feel like there's certainly some things that they could do to make it better. You know, there was a time there that was so commercial and there's this money everywhere and, you know, things have changed. I don't think it's like that now. And I think narrowing it maybe is going to be a benefit, perhaps. I'm not sure. I I guess we'll see. But hopefully it's more quality, you know?

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Yeah. You know, you've been her better 34 years now. Where where do you think this this neighborhood is going to go?

SPEAKER_01 22:49

You know, this has had entertainment on the street for a long time. I don't know when the first club was, but I'm sure it was probably pre-50s probably. I would think that there's going to be some semblance of some entertainment down here. It's always had that kind of a draw in terms of the architecture and tourism and you know as long as there's going to be tourism in the convention center in the future, I think that it makes sense to have this here. As long as people can afford to be here and present, that's going to be the interesting challenge, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

I think you're right because when you look back at the history of the street, I mean it kind of has always been like there have always been saloons. Yeah. If you know we can still call them that. And then uh you know at one time this was where all the movie theaters were and it and it was where all the movie theaters were that uh you know that that actually you could go to if you were black. Yeah. You know you couldn't go to the Paramount.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Yeah. So um yeah so it'll it'll be interesting to see how that all goes down. Well tell me a little bit about what it is you do with Red River Cultural District. Because I know you're on the board there now, correct?

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yeah. So so tell tell me about what what's up with that and why you think it's important to be involved.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

I feel like having a group of like-minded business people together creates space for you know evolvement and protection of what we do. And you know we all have similar goals in terms of preserving the music and being able to do that. And I think there's safety in numbers. And so you know there's been this growth of all the live music venues along Red River and it just makes sense to be organized so that we can protect our interests like I said and promote what we have. And you know we do that through a couple of events each year. There's free week and then there's the um hot summer nights which we do in July and those are super helpful during slow times for us. I wish we had one one a month. I feel like we're constantly fighting the fight with the city you know to like I said protect safety issues, parking, traffic, all that I wasn't initially allowed into the district because of our location but right after the pandemic I believe Cody their director was opening up kind of the boundaries to include us because they realized hey we have more you know more power here.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

And this is Cody Cowan I believe yeah yeah and so they invited me to be a part of it and there you go. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Well you're really not far from Red River. No we're half a block. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

And they've included other businesses on either side so I'm you know I'm not the only one now on six streets.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Yeah. Yeah. And and I guess your next door neighbor casino al camino is still he's still going strong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is which is great. I mean I think I think uh I know uh talking with the emos folks about casino and about how there kind of became a little circuit of emos casino we like being next to them. Definitely definitely yeah um well so t tell me about like what you know what's happening with with Flamingo Cantina right now and what are what are some of the things you're excited about presenting and like some of the local bands who you're really kind of following thinking that people need to pay more attention to there's a lot of really good up and coming bands that I I love.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

You know one of my favorite things to do is work with other female artists who, you know, maybe we'll curate and all women night or you know something like that. And there's a few of those one of them is Noella Gray. She's amazing she's coming back in December. There's just a lot of lot of amazing artists that um I'm excited to work with some of the College of Hip Hop Knowledge is one of them and they've recently formed a band which is really exciting. So it makes their show kind of extra special and there's like 10 of them you know so we work together a lot with them and some of their projects. What I would like to remind people is that we're here putting on great shows and that we need people to come support live music and that's you know takes all of us to make that happen.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

All right very good thank you for you know coming and and uh doing doing this interview. I mean I think it's just yeah and it's really yeah and everybody needs to get out and see some good music.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

I do flamingo yeah thanks for joining us for the Red River Podcast a production of the Red River Cultural District. To learn more about how the district is working to preserve and support Austin's DIY arts and live music scene visit Red River Culturaldistrict.org. The Red River Podcast is a part of a larger storytelling project called Cultural Curves celebrating Austin's live music and preserving the stories, sounds and sphere of Red River. Your host has been Greg Beats for audio production by Richard Weimar Music is alive by Kind Keith. And I'm Kind Keith thanks for listening.