Wendy WWAD

If you spent any time along Red River in the late 1990s and early 2000s, you couldn’t have missed Wendy Nelson, a.k.a. Wendy WWAD (as in “What Would Ace Do?”) . She ran Rank N Revue alongside partner Brenna Parthmore, a freebie tabloid zine that gave voice to the emerging Red River music district and provided in-depth coverage of the goings-on at mainstay venues like Room 710, Red Eyed Fly, Elysium, and Headhunters. Jump in as Wendy recounts her years of booking and bartending along Red River, the smoking ban controversy, and departed characters she met along the way like Chad Holt (“Total Badass”) and Handsome Joel Svatek (“King of Red River”).

The podcast is a collection of real stories, history, memories and perspectives from people connected to the cultural district - past and present. Everyone remembers the past a little differently, and some tales include sensitive and explicit topics. These stories don’t always reflect the view, mission or endorsements of our organization - they’re simply part of the rich, complicated history of the place. We’ve done our best to honor each storyteller’s voice, but can’t promise every detail is fact-checked or free from the occasional fuzzy memory. Think of this podcast; heartfelt, imperfect, and full of character. Thanks for listening with an open mind and for celebrating the many layers of our District’s shared heritage.

Support the Red River Cultural District at: www.redriverculturaldistrict.org

Follow us at: @redriverculturaldistrict

The host of The Red River Podcast is: Greg Beets
Special thanks to: Richard Whymark
Explore Richard and Greg's work at: www.acuriousmixofpeople.com

Music for this podcast is provided by: KindKeith

KindKeith (they/them), the musical project of Fort Worth native Keith Galloway Jr., is an Alternative Rap/R&B artist known for blending soulful...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If you believe in protecting and supporting Austin's live music scene and our culture, we invite you to get involved at Red River Culturaldistrict.org. Your support helps keep the music alive. From Austin, Texas, you're listening to the Red River Podcast. Stories of music, culture, and community. Exploring the legacy and lore of Red River Street in downtown Austin.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

I'm Wendy Nelson, also known as Wendy Wadd. I spent a lot of time on Red River, booking bands primarily at either Room 710 or Headhunters. I also bartended extensively in and around the Red River district. And I was an avid music fan, showgoer, and I started a little fanzine called Rank Review, which was about the Red River Music District and uh all of our friends and our friends' bands, and basically our scene and music community that was happening primarily like late 90s to I don't know, 20, 2009-ish, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah. Yeah. What were the clubs you were primarily going to?

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Okay, so 1986, there wasn't a whole lot of uh alternative, I guess, clubs. I mean, and I was just getting into to alternative music. Everybody kind of was, I guess. I mean, I was, you know, I graduated high school in 86. It was more like new wave and like early, early punk rock, you know. Um, granted, I was 18 when I moved here, so I was a little behind some of the older guys as far as you know, dicks, big boys, that kind of thing. But the clubs that I remember from that era are the are the cave club. But I also remember um the cannibal club and the black cat and the Ritz. Um, Liberty Lunch, we're talking like late 80s, early 90s, I guess, that kind of era. Granted, I was supposed to be going to school and not going out all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

It sucks you in. Um, several of those clubs, Black Cat, uh Cannibal Club, Ritz, those were on 6th Street, correct. Uh Cave Club, which is now Elysium, uh, was over on Red River. Do you remember like the first time you ever went to the Cave Club?

SPEAKER_02 2:21

So I remember the Cave Club because early on, I'm thinking around 88-ish, I became friends with Phil Owen, who was who started the band The Skate Niggs, and I believe they started in in 88-ish. And at that time, he was DJing all around town, but primarily at at the cave club. And he was really into industrial music, and as a result, it kind of rubbed off on me. And I got interested in industrial music, and this was prior to me joining the Skate Niggs in '92. This was way before that. And I remember the Cave Club being dark and hot. And uh the main thing that stood out to me is that ministry show there. And there were some bands from Austin that kind of sounded like along that vein, like Crust, I don't know, Miracle Room, weird, um experimental almost kind of stuff. Not straight ahead rock and roll, you know, not punk rock, but more um different sounding instruments and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah. Um as I recall, I think Miracle Room, the uh and Crust too, for that matter. I mean, they they basically uh did did some found instruments. Like they would basically like find uh you know things, junk, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

And create an instrument out of it.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, yeah. So there was always uh always that going on. And uh yeah, I know and I know Phil Owen uh was uh probably instrumental in kind of helping introduce that to a lot of folks.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

I think so, as far as at least the industrial music goes, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Um and and also at that time, uh Frank Kozick, who became a huge poster artist, um, was working the door at the Cave Club and he started doing his posters for the shows. He became a household name for for flyers, for poster art for shows, and um, you know, he got his start in Austin as well. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

So what would you say like one of was one of the most memorable uh I mean you talked about ministry, uh were there other m memorable shows at the cave club that you pick out?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

I remember seeing I not necessarily the cave club, but I remember seeing a show at the Cavity Club. I saw Gigi Allen there and for seven dollars.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, seven dollars would have been a decent chunk of change and it was when Gigi was. It was yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

I still have the flyer for that, and I was I was really disappointed. I mean, granted, I didn't own like his records or anything, I just went for the shock, I guess the shock value. And it it was definitely shocking to me. Uh I'll say that. Like he stripped down to nothing and and pooped in his hand and started flinging it at the audience. And uh that was my exit cue. I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

So you so did you get out before the uh the tear gas situation? Because I, you know, some yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

And before the police showed up and all that.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Missed all of that.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah. Well, this guy, I I I think for a reasonable person, you know, when the when the feces starts being thrown, that's a good cue to leave. Like, okay. Uh well, uh so yeah, so the cavity was definitely a memorable, uh, memorable one. Tell me about what Red River is like in the the late 90s.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Okay, so late 90s, um, you know, I guess emos opened around 92-ish. And the other bars I don't I don't felt like followed suit until later in the 90s, like 98-ish or 99 for like Red Eye Fly and Room 710. I'm not sure of the exact dates on on any of this stuff. But once Emo's opened, it was kind of all over for us. I mean, we went to emos all the time, whenever possible. Um I mean no, you said they weren't charging cover in the in the beginning. And I I remember also it was all ages because we had we had a chick that was in high school, Kim Ray, who still goes out and sees shows all the time now. She's 50. But at that time, she would drive us home from emos. Like she would be our designated driver. Like we'd take her to the show, but she would drive us home because she wasn't able to drink, and we were. Um, but at that point I was working at the back room bartending from 95 to like 99, 2000. So I didn't go out a whole lot on Red River. It's when I quit the back room and started working at Red Eye Fly that I really started hanging out on Red River quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Because I was full-time at Backroom for a minute there.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah. So t so tell me about Red-Eyed Fly. Because I think you're right. I think they opened like in '98 or so. What was that? What was that club all about when it first started?

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Uh, you know, it they were trying different things. Um, it seemed like they would have, you know, like a DJ or something like that going on in the inside. That was before they started booking a whole lot of bands inside, and they were booked most of the bands outside, but they did have stage capabilities inside as well. And I think they weren't really sure what their identity was gonna be. You know what I mean? It was a it wasn't like a set type of genre at that point in time. Um, but that is where I met handsome Joel, who became a really good friend of mine. Um one of my best friends. But at that point, I I only worked at Red Eye Fly for maybe a year.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Lance Farley was booking there for uh a hot minute, or maybe more than a hot minute, but uh but that's when I remember going there uh quite a bit. And uh uh Lance is the drummer for the fishermen Pocket Fisherman and the Hickoits now. But uh but anyway, uh the other thing I remember about a red-eyed fly is that they gave you your drinks and plastic cups and that that had the logo with a club on them, and the bathrooms were nice for a club.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Right. Compared to other bars, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

It was like a big step up.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Or like Lysium or Cave Club or whatever. Yeah. Those were always hit or miss. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

But but of course emos. Oh, yeah, emo's famous or infamous. Exactly. Yeah. But but let's talk a little bit about 710, because 710 was certainly, you know, the was around probably and and sort of doing the same thing a little bit longer.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

So t talk to me a bit just about the layout of the club and I like 710 because you walk in like one side and you you didn't have to, if you didn't want to pay to go see the band on the other side, you didn't have to. You could hang out, but there's a horseshoe bar like in the middle. So you could still see the bands, and if they piqued your interest enough to walk around and pay, you could, or you could just hang out.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Who are you booking over there? When who are the bands that really did work?

SPEAKER_02 9:26

You know, I at that point in time, like in the early like 2002-ish, three-ish, I was real good friends with Dixie Witch, and I was their merch girl. So I did a few tours with them. So through them, I met a whole bunch of Stoner Rock bands like Suplex and Alabama Thunder Pussy and bands like that. And I was booking stuff like that. Friends of theirs that would that I would meet on the road. They would come to town, play with Dixie Witch, um, Electric Cock. That's one of Woody's bands. A lot of local stuff, hobble, excess lettuce, a lot of local stuff, but then I'd try to sneak in, you know, bad wizard bands I had met on the road, stuff like that. Um, and and Woody was pretty open to everything. I did throw him a couple curved balls. I booked Dale Watson at 710, which was a really big deal for me. Um, because I always loved, I always loved Dale. I like I have my countryside also, you know, like Wayne the Train Hancock, stuff like that. Um so we figured, okay, if Pong can play over at Continental Club, why can't Dale Watson play over at 710? And he did it, you know, and it and it wasn't a huge success, but it wasn't a loss either. You know what I mean? A lot of people showed up for it. It was like, it was it was cool having something different, like down on Red River, you know, throwing the Dale Watson in there. Because I've I figured it all it all meshed because we were all friends. We all liked a lot of the same stuff. Um Hank 3 is probably my biggest uh success over at Room 710. Um that was that was interesting, but it was his the Ash Jack version, you know, his more metal stuff instead of the country stuff.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's interesting. I mean, I I I think someone like Dale Watson, uh, I I think I've seen him in, you know, everywhere from places like uh you know, Jenny's sort of Longhorn to you know neighborhood uh park festivals. I mean, so he kind of I think he he can kind of go just about anywhere and still uh translate, but that that's so but that's that's cool. I don't think I knew that Dale Watson ever played at 7-2. One time, one time I don't remember the date.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Woody would know the date. He's much better with dates than I am.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, and I do I do you know, Hobble was another another good one. Uh really frenetic stage show, as I recall.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Yeah, we're a bunch of bands, um, and plus the like a local band I was booking was was the Pink Swords. I don't know if you remember them. Oh, yeah, but I booked a couple little short tours for them. Um, and so of course I would slip them on every bill, and then Brutality Incorporated, Houston was my roommate, so he was real easy to throw on a bill. You know what I'm saying? Like I had a lot of access, musician access at my fingertips, just from friends of mine or whatever.

unknown 12:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

So that'd be they'd be great, you know. So it was a mishmash of music. It was there was some punk, there was some metal. Um, I kind of did it all, just whatever I liked.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah. But it kind of gave it, it kind of provided a home base for bands that were kind of coming in at a you know, at a harder uh edge. I think you're right. I mean, it's sort of the there, there's this middle ground between uh, you know, punk and metal, and maybe some nods back to 70s southern rock to some degree, just because it's Texas and that's kind of what it is we do here to some degree. I mean, uh did uh like Amplified Heat, were those guys every year. Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Oh yeah. They've been around for a long time. Oh yeah. I love those guys. They were the cover of one of our issues, but I think it was like the year three or something like that. So maybe around 2006.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

And then what about uh like Tia Carrera?

SPEAKER_02 13:15

I remember they Oh yeah, for sure. I love those guys. Those are those guys are still doing it too. And you know, well, Kurt from Dixie Witch is in Tia Carrera. Oh, okay. The bass player. Yeah. So that's that's his thing. He the guy that always plays barefoot, that's the bass player from Dixie Witch. He's been playing barefoot for 30 something years.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

But he he's just into it. That's his jam, stone a rock, or just just uh more like improv, I guess, type of stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

You know, 710, I think they lasted a good 10, 11 years, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Uh yes, that sounds about right.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Yeah, which is a you know, by by club standards, a bit you know, very good run.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

It is, yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Yeah, for sure. And I guess right across the street from 710, I think starting about that same time you had Beerland.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Beer Land, yes. Randall Stockton. Um I always like Beerland because it seemed like more like the garage, garage punk kind of stuff. Or for me, it always seemed like that. Like Sons of Hercules type of garagey bands. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yeah, no, I think that's I think that's odd. But I mean, but the but the Pink Swords, I mean, I they could play Beerland.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, they play Beer Land quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

So so Beerland, it sounds like that, you know, Beerland and 710 had a you know, they had a pretty good relationship.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

I feel like they had a good camaraderie. Um I know Randall and Woody have always been friends, the owners, and they're also friends with Casino, um, of course, who's not on Red River, but I figure he's part of the whole thing just because that bar has kind of been like a anchor as far as where people go to eat and meet and greet before they go to shows and whatnot. Yeah. But I I feel like um Randall and um Woody would like book shows. I feel like they would all talk to each other before they book shows. Like if you had like a heavy hitter come into 710, you you knew you were gonna get a shit ton of people. You don't want to kill the other bars' business. So you they would book shows that weren't in direct competition with that band necessarily. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Um, or they put out the alert, hey, butthole surfers are playing over here, so maybe you might want to watch what you're booking. You know what I'm saying? Um, I feel like all those guys communicated and were and were friends. And then, you know, of course, they were all dealing with the city, they were together against the city about the smoking ordinance and the noise ordinance and all this stuff, so they kind of had to be a band of brothers, really, to keep their bars open. You know what I'm saying? And yeah. Fight the power, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Well, there was I mean, I yeah, I th I think regardless of the health situation, if you're a business, like if you're a club and you have don't have any means of allowing people outside to smoke. Right. It it did, yeah, it it it you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

I think that was that was a thing for Beerland because uh like it initially I think they weren't gonna let you smoke within X amount of the front door. Yeah. X amount of space. And like Beerland, it was an issue before they built that little tiny patio.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Under the awning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

They didn't have that. And I and I remember Randall wrote a big article about it for Rankin Review about bitching about the smoke and ornaments, and I don't even think he smoked. I think it was a matter of all of his customers smoked when they went to see shows, and he wanted to keep his customers, obviously. You know what I mean? He's like, this is why this is bad. Yeah you know, but um they worked it out, obviously. Yeah. Moved along past the smoking thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

It it ended up, yeah, it ended, they they ended up continuing to to roll for quite a bit, and now that's the 13th floor, so it's still uh, you know, or I should say again, I know it went through a little bump in the road uh after Beerland closed and was something else, but but you know, definitely a you know live music venue again, which is nice. So yeah. Um as far as uh other other venues on on Red River, um tell me about Headhunters.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

So Headhunters, that place was a shit show. Um for real. I uh I I didn't work there a real long time, 2005 to 7-ish or something like that. But I only did work two nights a week. I did Slayer Sundays and Metal Mondays. Yeah, the Slayer Sundays, I would basically just play Slayer all night. No other, no other band.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Band.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

That was it. And I never got sick of it, and no one else ever got sick of it either. So I was like, well, I'll just play Slayer over and over and over. Keep playing Slayer. And then Metal Monday I played Metal with the exception of Slayer. No Slayer was allowed on Metal Mondays because I we had listened to Slayer all night. So, and those nights I would bring in bands, like touring bands, if they were metal, or they didn't have to be metal, but that's pretty much what I went for on those two nights because that was the music I was playing. Uh, that's what I was DJing. But there wouldn't be a cover, you know, the bands would just get tips. But it was great for the bands. A lot of touring bands would, you know, they couldn't book out a Monday or a Sunday night, you know what I mean? And they would meet a bunch of people and at least sell merch and maybe get hooked up with another show, or somebody'd say, Hey, you want to jump on the show tomorrow night at 7.10 or Thursday night at 7.10. So that helped bands, but Headhunters was a totally tiny dive. And you know, I don't even remember the capacity, it couldn't have been very much. But we were paid if we were paid, we were paid under the table. We we kept our tips. I don't really remember like an hourly pay happening. It was I'm not gonna say the owner was a total scumbag, but it was on Bar Rescue, and uh he did get busted for tax evasion, so that was what it like the it was the corner of Red River in Eighth, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Was it eighths? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

You know, and that wasn't so much a mus a live music venue. It we ended up having a few shows there. You know, I I never I never booked there full time. I think Looney might have booked a lot there, but that was like we were having New Disaster and bands like that played there quite a bit. It couldn't be much more than a four-piece band because the stage was tiny. Yeah. Um, I did book a couple of like epic shows there during South by Southwest, just day parties, and then we would utilize the backstage and the inside stage. But that's when that's when there was a whole bunch popping off. There were day shows at 710 and Beerland and everywhere, and you could just bounce around. It was great. And I think Casino might have even had a couple bands on the patio at Casino.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

That was that was a real happening time for South by Southwest of Red River. It's just a lot of band action.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Before everything got all spread out and kind of corporate, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, I I want to say I saw Andrew WK there once, maybe. That sounds right. Yeah. That sounds that's a possibility. And you're right about the capacity of the place. It couldn't have been, I mean, I just remember it being like just jam-packed in there and just being kind of like, I can't believe we're, you know, yeah, it was tiny.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

But I mean, I met all kinds of crazy people there. That's I met Tarantino Quentin Tarantino while I was working at Headhunters, and that became a big, a whole different deal. He came in, uh, he was in town shooting Death Proof.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

And he came in and I met him. I was bartending, and ended up, we closed down at 2 a.m. Steve let them stay after hours, of course, and keep drinking. So I ended up upstairs drinking with them after hours and uh smoking a blunt with Quentin Tarantino and his name the Rizza? The Rizza? Oh yeah. Is that his name? And then he he proceeded to ask me to be an extra in Death Proof. Well, that ended up being me filming at the chili parlor for two weeks. After that, I was just uh in the background at the chili proof at the chili parlor scene and Death Proof eating the same bowl of chili for two weeks. But that became a whole spin-off thing there just from meeting Tarantino at Headhunters.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Yeah. That that's that's a moment for sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

But that was, you know, people would always pop in and see me and have a couple drinks in route to wherever else they were going if we didn't have a show on their way too. At that time, though, you know, everybody liked to bop around. We'd we'd go to all the bars, you know, on Red River, because there was always at least a good band on, at least one good band on each each bill. You know what I mean? And if you timed it right, you could bop in and see this band at Emo's, then bop into Beerland and see someone, then bop into 710. It was it was really awesome. And just the fact that it was just on like two or three blocks. It was like boing, boing, boing. So much fun.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

You know, of course, I had it easy because I was doing the magazine, so I didn't have to pay cover.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Oh, that worked out.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Anywhere. So it's like I could, I would easily go from bar to bar. But like um that was a perk when our writers had once we started the Zine was like, hey, you know, we can get you on the list of the show if you'll write a review of the show. It's like, okay, I want to see this. I want to see this. You know, so it worked out kind of for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yeah. Well, let's talk about rank and review. Tell me about how you got the idea for that and how it got started.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Well, you know, rank and review actually, Brenna came up with the idea. Brenna Parthmore, who was ended up being my partner, it was her idea, and she approached me literally in the room 710 bathroom. She felt like the Chronicle wasn't covering all the bands that we were going to see all the time. And they kind of weren't. And we were friends with all these guys. She's like, well, someone, I guess someone had dared her or said something to her about, you can't start your own. And she's like, hey, yes, I can. And she asked me. And sh I was more of the social person than she was. So I started like hitting up friends of mine that I that I knew could write, or that I knew were photographers, and and musicians, even. We really were pushing bands that we supported. You know what I mean? It wasn't impartial journalism. It was this is what we like. You know what I mean? But it it became more and more broad as we got more and more writers. Like they would be like, hey, have you heard this band? And we hadn't, you know what I mean? So it was cool. It was like we were learning about music in the process. And you know, we already knew enough characters. We were like, okay, we'll we'll have an article about an interesting character. There's Livto, we know Livdo, there's some material. You know what I mean? We were just kind of winging it.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Um, it became a lot better after a year or two progressed, and we kind of knew what we were doing. Um, but when we started it, we didn't have the money for it, and I was like, well, okay, we're gonna cover, we want to cover these venues. We want to cover Emo's, Beerland, Red Eye Fly, 710. So let's go ask these club owners if they'll donate to the cause. And they did. They each gave us, it was, I think it was $100, was which they each gave us to to put out our first issue. And and for that hundred dollars, they got a spread on their club. They got someone writing a review of a couple shows, and then we ran their their calendar. It came out twice a month when we first started. And it just kind of picked up steam, you know. And after the first couple issues, I booked a benefit, I think, to pay for the third and fourth issues. I just booked a show, and then then we actually started selling ads. But we were giving, you know, ads to like our original investors, like the club owners, for dirt cheap. You know what I mean? It's like you gave us the money to start this whole thing, so you guys they they weren't paying very much. I know that. But then we actually started hitting like tattoo shops and mutual friends, you know, printing companies, recording studios, stuff like that, where we had ends or new people. Hey, we'll give you a cheap ad, you know, and and it became a it became a big deal, and it was it was pretty successful for a while. Yeah, for a hot minute.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Well, I mean, but you know, and and where were you guys distributed? I mean, I know you distributed it at the venues along Red River. Is that I mean, that was so that's probably primarily your main distribution. But were you distributing it at other places in town?

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Oh yeah, we were all of our advertisers, of course, every tattoo shop, coffee shops, you know, stuff like that, um magnolia, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

You're right about uh the Chronicle. I mean, the Chronicle, they'd cover I think what they could within their editorial window devoted to music, and then it and it was kind of you talk about it being subjective on your end, I think, as a as a freelancer for the Chronicle at the time, it was it was somewhat subjective on our end too. I mean, you would cut you'd pitch what you knew about, and the thing about rank and review is that it it stuck, you know, that you did have a good long run, and that you did and that you kind of found a you know an a unique editorial voice that you know because of the because of the writers you had and the things you covered.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Well thanks.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Well, tell me about some of the people who you had who you had writing for you.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Well, in the beginning, you know, there weren't uh there weren't very many of us. Lisa Graves is one that stood out. She's a good friend of mine. Um she's also a great writer, but uh, you know, she got sidetracked, got married, went to Weedsville, worked there for 15 years. She was one of the original feature writers. Later, uh Trevor Wallace came along. He was uh he wrote he was wrote a whole lot. He was very he was very involved musically. He was very into the music scene. And we started getting people, we basically almost started recruiting people. We started putting out flyers at UT and St. Ed's. Hey, you know, if you're a writer, you're an aspiring writer, we're having a meeting at mugshots. We would have a meeting at mugshots where we people would mail in CDs or whatever, and we'd pass out CDs, people like, oh, I want that one, you know. But we started getting, we started getting writers from the universities like aspiring journalists, um, that would, hey, we'll get in the show for free. I'll get I'll get my article in print. You know what I mean? So so we we started getting a wide variety of people, quite honestly. Um, you know, we also had people like Pincus would write occasionally. Jeff Pincus? Yeah. Woody wrote an article here and there. Uh Chad Holt eventually came along. He's a great writer, um, hilarious. And, you know, he had varied interests, uh, sports being a big, big thing for him. And he started his little his little corner was called offsides with Chad Holt. Sometimes it'd be about football, sometimes it'd be about music. It just kind of depended on what he wanted to write about. Um it definitely was never censored, and that was the key part for him, you know, because he wanted he wanted to write about whatever he wanted to write about, so we let him. Yeah, okay, it's it's all you. Um and then as far as photographers, Jerry Milton uh was one of our our major main photo editors, him and Larry Stern uh were big photographers that really were at every show. It was one of the two of them were at every show up in the front, taking photos forever and uh I guess some of the folks you mentioned, unfortunately, are no longer uh with us.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I know lots of them, I feel like. Too many. I think Chad uh just had a I guess heavenly birthday, as we say. Bob Ray, the filmmaker, d decided he was enough of a character to warrant a feature-length documentary.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

He definitely was documentary, that's for sure. I mean, just the fact that he hosted his own. Well, he roasted his wake, his wake before he passed. We had a wake for him, which was a roast. It was a roast of him at the lost well before he passed away. It was very strange. And a lot of tears were shed, but a lot of laughs were had too, you know. It was just he was just one of those unique individuals.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yeah, he was very eclectic and and he but he very intelligent, but also very strong-willed, and he was gonna do things his his way. Right. Yeah. Um speaking of Chad, I know as a as a writer, you know, great, great writer, great character, but he but he was also in a in a band.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Oh, he had a band called Front Butt, and they they wore these horrible, like these, I don't know, like ass-shaped pillows on the front was underneath. So it looked like he had a little uh butt on the front, basically. And it was it wasn't the best band ever, but he was just, you know, between the costumes and him jumping in the trash can and rolling down the stairs of 710 in the trash can, and he'd pop up singing, you know, on the microphone out of the trash can.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

It was just part of his shtick, but yeah, he was he was definitely a character for and of course he he had the whole run in with the law over the counterfeit south bypass.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Shake South by Southwest wristbands. Yeah, yes, big deal. In fact, I had one. I had one that year. Um did it work? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Yeah, yeah, I got in everywhere. Yeah, they did the whole line. They they had it down, and and I'm not even sure how they got arrested for it, really. I'm not sure how they got busted, but I know it ended up being like conspiracy or forgery or something like that. Um he could have gotten in a lot more trouble than he got.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah, when you consider uh the face value of those and it gets to a certain dollar amount. Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

And and well back then it wasn't that nearly as expensive as it is now. Yeah. I mean, it was maybe a couple hundred bucks each.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

No.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

I don't even know what they're charging these days. Yeah, he had a couple run-ins with the law. And he also became the representative. What was he doing that? Drunk drivers? Drunk drivers of Texas.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Drunk drivers of Texas. The idea basically was they were uh, and this this is really pre-ride share. Uh it was they they were, you know, uh kind of between triple-A tipsy toe and you know, and you know, because otherwise if you if you'd had too much and you're downtown, uh it's either a cab or uh hopefully a friend who's not who's sober. And yeah, and I think the idea was you know that they were they weren't driving drunk, they were driving drunk people home, hence the name drunk drivers of Texas, which was just a playful one.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

That's right. And uh yeah, because we were trying to do something for handsome Joel at one point, too, like a safe ride home.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Yeah, and and we talked a little bit about handsome Joel, but I mean you want to talk about Red River characters. Uh yeah, let's talk a bit about Handsome Joel.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

He was kind of the king of Red River, I think, in my mind. Um he worked at Flamingo Cantina for a long time before he went to Red Eye Fly, and then when they had to change up in ownership at Red Eye Fly and I left, uh he went over to Emo's. But um Handsome Joel, it was great. Like he and I were we're big bugs, and I was the big partier, he was not. But um, we liked all the same shows, all the same music. So a lot of times, you know, I would pick him up on my way downtown, and we'd go to the show, and then he'd drop me off at home and drive my car home. And then, you know, he was working at emo's, I was working downtown, he'd come scoop me back up for our shift the next day, drive us back town. So he had my car more than I did, I think, at one point. But he was like a larger-than-life character. He was um, he had a big fan club with all the girls, and he printed out these iHeartHJ shirts that were like really small white shirts, and all the girls would wear them, and he'd get photos of him like surrounded by beautiful women wearing his iHeartHJ shirts. But uh, he was just, I think Woody described him as um the only rock star I know that's not a musician. And he was basically, he was good friends with a lot of bands, but um he was that guy that would always come through at a pinch, like you needed to borrow a guitar from someone, uh, your van broke down. And even though he didn't have a vehicle, he knew someone with a vehicle that could come pick your band up and throw your equipment in it and get you to the venue. He was just like one of those guys. It's like kind of a go-to, go-to guy for for everything. Like he would help you out no matter what. He was just like a really big, awesome personality.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Yeah, and he did that with you know, probably hundreds of bands over over the years.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Because it and they would stay at his house, he'd make them barbecue, or or even if it was hot dogs, he'd have the grill going. You know what I'm saying? You got a place to crash, and you know, you gotta get you some food. So uh it was he was real welcoming to everyone. It was it was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah. And I guess I I I was it was it 2002 when he got uh got killed?

SPEAKER_02 34:54

I think it was I think it was uh 2003.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

But the the very beginning of 2003. Yeah. Because that was our third issue was dedicated to handsome Joel. Okay. And he died um, I think it was like Super Bowl Sunday or the day right after. And he was killed by a drunk driver who had an empty keg in the back of his sh brand new SUV who also owned a liquor store. It turned out. And it was I it was multiple DWIs for him. I don't know if it was the third or fourth. It was it was a few.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

I I do remember um his funeral and it just being packed.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Yeah, it was um we got there maybe five minutes late and we couldn't even get into the main room because there was it was just spilling out. I mean, I think the capacity might have been like maybe 150 there or something. There was there had to have been six, seven hundred people there, if not more. It was crazy. I mean, just for somebody, you know, I mean, that wasn't in a band. You know, that's just how many people he knew. He was cremated and we divvied up his ashes and we put him in these little glass urns and uh took him to all the little bars on Red River. So there he's in Casino El Camino, but he's also in uh Elysium and Beerland and 710. He's still in those bars, those little urns with his ashes. So he could like stay on Red River, I guess, you know, for eternity.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

There's no end of there's no end of watch for Joel, basically. Yeah, yeah. The the music is one thing, but it doesn't happen without the folks doing that kind of that that kind of work. If you're not getting that that supports.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Yeah, he was either working the door, working the stage, you know, putting people up at his house. He was doing flyers also. He would do flyers when he could, stuff like that, you know. He was he sold merch with honky. I know he tour managed with them occasionally, so he was in the trenches, you know. He was never on the stage, but he was always there.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Well, so I'm gonna turn turn to a slightly different thing, looking looking a little more forward now. But um so I mean, how would you say that Red River has changed, you know, how it is now versus how it was maybe 25 years ago?

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Luckily, there's still a lot of venues there. I mean, you still got the 13th floor, it's now Beerland, you still have Elysium doing the thing that was Cave Club all those years ago, and Kilimanjaro, all the all the different names it's been, and Stubbs is still there. And Valhalla's now the 710. Uh we've got the Mohawk, um, which is a great venue for touring acts. It's not so much local acts, but uh for touring acts and stuff. So I think the Red River scene is is still alive. Um I don't see Mohawk going anywhere or Stubbs at least. And I think those are pretty good strongholds. Um I would love it if something would happen to emos and that someone could reopen that as a venue. I think that would be fucking amazing.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

But it's a very uh, you know, just having looked into it, I mean it's the that's been there for a long time. Yeah, there's a lot of I mean, a lot of that that that's kind of the one of the interesting things about that whole area is just how old everything is.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Right. And and you know, it amazes me all these things are are they uh not open, like not being utilized, like headhunters and all that. And and there's a lot of places on Sixth Proper that aren't. But um, they're still trying, and you know, I I just think we had a real strong like community in Austin, like music community in Austin. I and I think we still do, you know, I think we support each other. Cool. Well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Yeah. Thanks for joining us for the Red River Podcast, a production of the Red River Cultural District. To learn more about how the district is working to preserve and support Austin's DIY arts and live music scene, visit Red River Culturaldistrict.org. The Red River Podcast is a part of a larger storytelling project called Cultural Curve. Celebrating Austin's live music and preserving the stories, sounds, and sphere of Red River. Your host has been Greg Beats for audio production by Richard Weimar, or music is alive by Kind Keith. And I'm Kind Keith. Thanks for listening.